Author Topic: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong  (Read 898 times)

Xiao Jie

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2011, 03:48:04 pm »
I suspect that much of the money that will payout the Natives to support the pipeline comes from foreign sources as well.  There are many American and Chinese interests in the pipeline are there not?

I don't see a problem with the environmental lobby being capable of playing on an equal footing to the oil sands lobby and attempting to buy the pawns who can be bought.  As you know, it is guaranteed that the developers will do this.

My stated hope had nothing to do with these.  I hope that some of the interested parties will stand on principle and make a decision based on the merits of the project, independent of what they are offered as payout.  I don't know if it will happen or not, but I hope it does.

XJ, what you fail to see is the benefit of maintaining the area pipeline and tanker free.  There is no economic gain in this, but there is a gain.  Compare it to the international trade of antiquities.  There is huge money in private trade in that market, but very little in placing artifacts in a museum for public display.  But museums provide protection of and education on the artifacts.  They have a socio-cultural worth that exceeds their financial worth.  You would have a hard time arguing that private ownership is better, even though it generates more revenue growth in a "fossil" market.

Maintaining the area in its current state is similar.  Once you have built the pipeline, you can never go back to what it was before.  There is a powerful interest in preserving it in the state it is currently in.  The oil can be sold later, but you can never buy back wilderness or habitat that has been developed or worse, destroyed.  Thus, the area may have an environmental worth that exceeds its financial worth.  You reject the concept of environmental worth and reason only in financial worth, but environmental worth exists and we will see what value it has to our society in this context.

Canada is one of the few remaining vestiges of wilderness, relatively untouched by man.  Many Canadians have a spiritual relationship with that natural state which would be difficult to explain to those who don't have it.  It has a value to Canadians.  It should come as no shock that those who do not possess this resource in their own country would nevertheless like to see it preserved in others.
Enbridge is a Canadian company that is offereing an industrial project that will benefit Canadians. Enbridge is subject to extensive public scrutiny while the foreign billionaire environmental lobby is not. Enbridge has made a solid above board economic proposal instead of shady payouts to band councillors.

Reel, I don`t understand how you can seriously say there is no economic gain. Billions of dollars in investment, thousands of man hours of employment, billions of $$ in tax revenue for all levels of government, making affected Aboriginal bands partners instead of the poverty, unemployment and dependence that exists there now. You`re right that the antiquities trade does not provide all these economic benefits which makes what your analogy a very poor one.

The area has been subject to economic activity for a long time now. There are hundreds of thousands of kms of pipeline infrastructure acroos Canada now. The only areas not touched by it are PEI and Nunavut, so the unspoiled wilderness argument is disingenuous. Canadians will still be able to enjoy the outdoors as I like to do myself. Canada does an excellent job of balancing environmental/economic considerations in resource extraction and NG will be a shining example of that delicate balance.

I do not reject the concept of environmental worth, on the contrary I embrace it. What I reject are misinformation campaigns by unaccountable  foreign deep pockets who do not have interests of Canadians at heart.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 03:55:01 pm by Xiao Jie »
As much government as is necessary, as little government as is possible.

Reel

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2011, 05:06:03 pm »
Sorry, I see where my post was confusing.  You have misinterpreted what I wrote here:  "XJ, what you fail to see is the benefit of maintaining the area pipeline and tanker free.  There is no economic gain in this, but there is a gain."

There is an obvious economic gain to going ahead with the project.  By "this" I meant that there is no economic gain in rejecting the project, but there is an alternative non-financial gain in rejecting it.

I agree that there is a lot of development everywhere.  There is also a line to be drawn to say that enough is enough and we are going to keep what remains.  The location of that line has to be debated each and every time a mega-project like this is considered.  I think this should be publically debated in addition to the bureaucratic checks and balances that exist.

I also reject misinformation (you have seen me do it wrt to Romero's article), but I won't necessarily accept that the pipeline is in the best interests of Canadians without considering all the arguments that are valid.  There is a valid argument for rejecting the pipeline, just as there is a valid argument for building it.  I'm undecided as to which is the stronger argument.

Xiao Jie

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2011, 05:15:55 pm »
Sorry, I see where my post was confusing.  You have misinterpreted what I wrote here:  "XJ, what you fail to see is the benefit of maintaining the area pipeline and tanker free.  There is no economic gain in this, but there is a gain."

There is an obvious economic gain to going ahead with the project.  By "this" I meant that there is no economic gain in rejecting the project, but there is an alternative non-financial gain in rejecting it.

I agree that there is a lot of development everywhere.  There is also a line to be drawn to say that enough is enough and we are going to keep what remains.  The location of that line has to be debated each and every time a mega-project like this is considered.  I think this should be publically debated in addition to the bureaucratic checks and balances that exist.

I also reject misinformation (you have seen me do it wrt to Romero's article), but I won't necessarily accept that the pipeline is in the best interests of Canadians without considering all the arguments that are valid.  There is a valid argument for rejecting the pipeline, just as there is a valid argument for building it.  I'm undecided as to which is the stronger argument.

Well, I look at it differently. Rejecting an industrial project of this magnitude is an economic loss to a country that will face serious future decisions about rising costs in areas like health care.

It`s not likely I`ll ever convince anyone this project is desirable. At least you are not calling me a 'racist' all the time like that lying puerile twit Romero. The hearings for NG will begin next month and you`ll get to hear all arguments, but opponents will dominate it of course.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 05:19:06 pm by Xiao Jie »
As much government as is necessary, as little government as is possible.

Reel

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2011, 05:51:14 pm »
Well, I look at it differently. Rejecting an industrial project of this magnitude is an economic loss to a country that will face serious future decisions about rising costs in areas like health care.

It`s not likely I`ll ever convince anyone this project is desirable. At least you are not calling me a 'racist' all the time like that lying puerile twit Romero. The hearings for NG will begin next month and you`ll get to hear all arguments, but opponents will dominate it of course.

Of course it would be an economic loss.  That being said it would only be an economic loss to the present value.  The future value of the resource will likely inflate and the oil isn't going anywhere.  There is nothing but corporate interest and/or greed that requires that it be extracted and sold immediately.

Thus, the only argument I perceive as being truly based on Canadian interest is opening a new market to provide price competition.  If energy prices outpace inflation as virtually everyone expects that they will, time will have the same effect as the pipeline and doing nothing has no environmental impact.

You might convince me.  It depends how good your arguments are.   :)

Xiao Jie

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2011, 06:20:09 pm »
Well, I look at it differently. Rejecting an industrial project of this magnitude is an economic loss to a country that will face serious future decisions about rising costs in areas like health care.

It`s not likely I`ll ever convince anyone this project is desirable. At least you are not calling me a 'racist' all the time like that lying puerile twit Romero. The hearings for NG will begin next month and you`ll get to hear all arguments, but opponents will dominate it of course.

Of course it would be an economic loss.  That being said it would only be an economic loss to the present value.  The future value of the resource will likely inflate and the oil isn't going anywhere.  There is nothing but corporate interest and/or greed that requires that it be extracted and sold immediately.

Thus, the only argument I perceive as being truly based on Canadian interest is opening a new market to provide price competition.  If energy prices outpace inflation as virtually everyone expects that they will, time will have the same effect as the pipeline and doing nothing has no environmental impact.

You might convince me.  It depends how good your arguments are.   :)

It`s not desirable  having only one market for our exports. The USA is not always a reliable customer either. We are at the mercy of American politicians pandering to their base as we`ve seen with the Keystone project delay. Do you not think that some US administation might not want Canadians paying for their deficit/debt by slapping a 'dirty oil' tax on our product? I think it`s highly likely when they know we have all our eggs in one basket.

I see Asia as a far more stable market than the West. A pragmatic region that won`t put political opportunism and faux environmental emergencies ahead of long term stability. In other words the type of place anyone would like to do business with.

Turning Canada into an energy superpower is not only good for Canada`s interests it is good for global stability. Is it better for Beijing to fuel their economy with blood oil from Sudan or Canada? Considering the recent unrest in the Arab world, is Alberta or the Middle East a more stable supplier? Fast growing nations like China will purchase their energy requirements from some place. I think we can offer a better, more ethical alternative to places like Nigeria where most birds wouldn`t lay eggs.
As much government as is necessary, as little government as is possible.

Rambo Wong

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2011, 08:39:42 pm »
    Ya right,you Xiao Jie are nothing but a half brack filipina maid

Cartman

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2011, 08:44:29 pm »
????????????????????????????????????????wtf dude???????????????????????????????????????????????????
    Ya right,you Xiao Jie are nothing but a half brack filipina maid

Rambo Wong

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2011, 08:59:04 pm »
Xiao Jie must stay away from the big caucs. She doesn't even care about her chinese heritage

Cartman

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2011, 09:04:22 pm »
??????????????????????????????????????????big caucs?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Xiao Jie must stay away from the big caucs. She doesn't even care about her chinese heritage

ScotlandYard

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 10:41:26 pm »
Well, I look at it differently. Rejecting an industrial project of this magnitude is an economic loss to a country that will face serious future decisions about rising costs in areas like health care.

It`s not likely I`ll ever convince anyone this project is desirable. At least you are not calling me a 'racist' all the time like that lying puerile twit Romero. The hearings for NG will begin next month and you`ll get to hear all arguments, but opponents will dominate it of course.

Of course it would be an economic loss.  That being said it would only be an economic loss to the present value.  The future value of the resource will likely inflate and the oil isn't going anywhere.  There is nothing but corporate interest and/or greed that requires that it be extracted and sold immediately.

Thus, the only argument I perceive as being truly based on Canadian interest is opening a new market to provide price competition.  If energy prices outpace inflation as virtually everyone expects that they will, time will have the same effect as the pipeline and doing nothing has no environmental impact.

You might convince me.  It depends how good your arguments are.   :)

It`s not desirable  having only one market for our exports. The USA is not always a reliable customer either. We are at the mercy of American politicians pandering to their base as we`ve seen with the Keystone project delay. Do you not think that some US administation might not want Canadians paying for their deficit/debt by slapping a 'dirty oil' tax on our product? I think it`s highly likely when they know we have all our eggs in one basket.

I see Asia as a far more stable market than the West. A pragmatic region that won`t put political opportunism and faux environmental emergencies ahead of long term stability. In other words the type of place anyone would like to do business with.

Turning Canada into an energy superpower is not only good for Canada`s interests it is good for global stability. Is it better for Beijing to fuel their economy with blood oil from Sudan or Canada? Considering the recent unrest in the Arab world, is Alberta or the Middle East a more stable supplier? Fast growing nations like China will purchase their energy requirements from some place. I think we can offer a better, more ethical alternative to places like Nigeria where most birds wouldn`t lay eggs.

Anyone But China\ABC
they dont want trade, they want to own.
Trade to them is a Trojan Horse

India is a better fit  for Canada

ScotlandYard

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2011, 10:43:37 pm »
All this environmental madness strengthens China as designed by Gore, Kissinger  and Strong

Maggie

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2011, 05:28:11 pm »
 i think it has come to the point in the west that the environmental movement has zero credibility.....they are against any development no matter what it is or how safe it is......consequently government pays only lip service to their concerns....sure when they get loud enough they can bully certain politicians into retreating but i think things are changing...especially with Harper in Ottawa....i think when they try to pull their nonsense on him it will only harden his stance and make him push forward with greater determination.....these environmental studies are a mere formality..........if the government decides to proceed and issues the permits then that is the law......true in the past the liberals have loaded the courts with political appointees that sided with the eco terrorists.....but that too is changing and i am not convinced they will get as favorable a hearing when they try to block it as they use to....time will tell
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money." Maggie

ScotlandYard

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2011, 07:02:06 pm »
Maggie the ones who call the shots don't reside in Ottawa.They influence both sides of the equation. Its hard for most to grasp this notion I know.
It is tough to tell one that there is a shadow government which in itself is monitored by Vatican interests...the Jesuits Knights Of Malta, Freemasonry etc. This shadowy group is called Power Corporation Li Ka- Shing was a member as was MauriceStrong, PaulMartin, JeanChretien, Pierre Trudeau, Mitchel Sharp and so on... So many others too lengthy to go into here. It coupled with its American counterpart The Carlyle Group go to make of the Trilateral group with  its EU members too. The financial core the Vatican bankers..The Rothschild's. The Bank of England situated on Threadneedle Street...called the Old Lady Of Threadneedle Street, City of London...the banking centre worldwide!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 07:08:35 pm by ScotlandYard »

Maggie

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2011, 04:08:58 am »
Maggie the ones who call the shots don't reside in Ottawa.They influence both sides of the equation. Its hard for most to grasp this notion I know.
It is tough to tell one that there is a shadow government which in itself is monitored by Vatican interests...the Jesuits Knights Of Malta, Freemasonry etc. This shadowy group is called Power Corporation Li Ka- Shing was a member as was MauriceStrong, PaulMartin, JeanChretien, Pierre Trudeau, Mitchel Sharp and so on... So many others too lengthy to go into here. It coupled with its American counterpart The Carlyle Group go to make of the Trilateral group with  its EU members too. The financial core the Vatican bankers..The Rothschild's. The Bank of England situated on Threadneedle Street...called the Old Lady Of Threadneedle Street, City of London...the banking centre worldwide!

oh boy....you and my mother would get along.....she is convinced that every evil in the world can be traced directly to the Pope and the catholic church.....of course she is in her 80's and thinks John Diefenbaker is prime minister...but oh well we try and humor her
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money." Maggie

ScotlandYard

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Re: Criminal and Madman Maurice Strong
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2011, 04:25:04 am »
Well bless her heart..and I  sincerely wish her well. Wishful thinking on her part I imagine. As far as the Vatican having control..we never left the Roman Empire..the Romish influence still remains with us to this day. It corrupted so much to maintain its influence and power over the Centuries.
Its face has changed to suit the times and rewritten  the history books,... for it is the conquerers that write the history\right?! So ingrained is its influence you'd be amazed. Study the Jesuits and  you will understand how the world operates today. The Architecture of modern political power in fact.